Gun foes warn Florida tourists about new law

1BC Civ Forums

Home

Members

FAQ Links

Welcome Guest ( Login | Register )

39 posts, Page 2 of 4

««1 2 3 4 »»»

Gun foes warn Florida tourists about new law

Rate Topic

Display Mode

Topic Options

Author

Message

jerm

10/4/2005 5:15 PM

Elite Pathogen

Last Seen:
Today @ 5:21 PM

Posts: 4,421
Visits: 10,979

Great leaders like Roosevelt have made America Great. Charlatan leaders like the Bush family (and Regan) make it less great. Let's be more specific. What was it that Roosevelt did to make America great and what has the "Bush family" and Regan done to make it less great? While Roosevelt was a great president in my eyes as well, there are many things brought about in his presidency which have trickled down and caused many of the problems of today. Social Security was started by him which has created a dependent welfare state, actually creating more poverty in my opinion. Even Roosevelt himself said that SS should only be temporary. By the way, I see how the left could make the argument that the "Bushes" are charlatains but Reagan? He was one of the most principalled presidents of our age. You may strongly disagree with his principals but to call him a charlatain just plays into the leftist rhetoric. And the direction towards promoting the armament of urban centres to me ostensibly appears dangerous. Do you really think that law abiding people will start shooting at every guy who looks at them funny? Criminals by definition don't follow the same rules of society so how would creating tougher gun laws change anything?
-- -A government that is powerful enough to do anything for us is powerful enough to do anything to us. -Fred Thompson -There are two races of people, the decent and the indecent. - Victor Frankel -They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. - Benjamin Franklin Consequences

Seared

10/4/2005 5:37 PM

I am pot

Last Seen:
4/4/2006 6:06 PM

Posts: 1,670
Visits: 2,512

Hate to bring a Southpark comment into a discussion but.. (from the bill link Jerm provided): WHEREAS, the Legislature finds that it is proper for law- 36 abiding people to protect themselves, their families, and 37 others from intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution 38 or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others As far as gun law, this isn't anything big... Though it does open the gates to the (heres the southpark comment) 'It's coming straight for us!' Southpark uses the line quite well... Several hunters enjoy killing endangered speicies and got around the laws by yelling out 'OH MY GOD IT"S COMING STRAIGHT FOR US!!!' right before shooting... Making sure that anybody nearby the saw the hunter knew the hunter had done it in self defence. 128 (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is 129 necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to 130 himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent 131 commission of a forcible felony; or It does lend itself to shooting then claiming self defence. But thats not much of a change. The law doesn't appear to change too much really... But the fact it's being altered is providing a good time for people opposed to US gun law a chance to vocalize. An armed society is a polite society. Highest murder rate by nearly 10x any other country = polite society
-- --- Shouldn't we be too concerned with terror and war to be discussing this right now? ---

jerm

10/4/2005 6:54 PM

Elite Pathogen

Last Seen:
Today @ 5:21 PM

Posts: 4,421
Visits: 10,979

As far as gun law, this isn't anything big... Though it does open the gates to the (heres the southpark comment) 'It's coming straight for us!' He he. I don't really see how. A prosecutor can decide to take on cases where it is not clear whether the killing was justified. It does lend itself to shooting then claiming self defence. But thats not much of a change. You said it better than I. Highest murder rate by nearly 10x any other country = polite society The question is whether the high murder rate is attributable to gun ownership or a large underclass (I don't mean poor I mean criminals) and whether that underclass are killing other underclass members. I would argue that more guns in the hands of law abiding citizens would reduce crime. If criminals knew that there was a higher percentage of persons who carried guns do you think they would be more or less likely to commit at least a violent crime? Just for your information, here's some statistics on murder rates. I don't know if they count in favor or not of my possitions, it's just for your information. Homicide Rate (per 100,000), 1950–2003 Map & Graph: Crime: Murders (per capita) This one has a compilation of a bunch of stats with some links as well: Death by Murder According to this site, and the first one I gave, the U.S. is not even on the top ten list of highest murder rates.
-- -A government that is powerful enough to do anything for us is powerful enough to do anything to us. -Fred Thompson -There are two races of people, the decent and the indecent. - Victor Frankel -They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security. - Benjamin Franklin Consequences

Scotty

10/4/2005 9:17 PM

Leader

Last Seen:
Today @ 5:39 PM

Posts: 755
Visits: 908

As usual, the Left exaggerates. It is true the homicide rate for the US is roughly 8 times that of the UK, Canada, Australia, Sweden etc. But a closer look at crime rates shows that the US has lowercrime rates for Burglery, & Robbery seeInternational Statistics. Homicide is most often a crime of passion while robbery and burglery are more calculated crimes. It would seem that our "gun ridden" country may discourage such calculated crimes- I repeat, a gun carrying country is a polite country. In the case of Assault, the rate for the US is about 10 per 1000 population, for Australia it is 36 per and for Switzerland it varies from 23 to 41 in the '90s. The US is LESS crime ridden than most of the countries it compares with in GDP per capita- the only crime where this is not true is homicide. So, I recommend all the America haters get their facts straight or expect to get their heads handed to them.
--

Clay

10/4/2005 10:14 PM

Chairman of the bored.

Last Seen:
8/5/2008 1:25 PM

Posts: 4,964
Visits: 5,633

Ya gotta love the direction the conservatives are taking the once great nation of the USA. Glad to see you're back to your usual trolling self Ness.
-- When I'm in charge, every mission is a suicide mission -Zapp Brannigan

Scipio Africanus

10/5/2005 12:04 AM

Grognard fantôme

Last Seen:
Today @ 8:02 PM

Posts: 7,355
Visits: 9,706

I wish I owned more guns. I wanna get a really high powered rifle. I got one 9mm Chinese made beretta ripoff, but that is just NOT enough for an American household. Gotta have AT LEAST one 12 gauge shotgun, and one high-powered rifle. 3006 would be fine I guess, but maybe something more modern? Oh yeah, a breech loader would be REALLY cool! Be fun to see how many shots you could rip off with one of those in a minute. No need for any semi-automatic rifles though for me. Just not that much of an enthusiast I guess :p
-- "'The front' is wherever you stop running away. Get used to it. This is what modern warfare looks like." K T Cat

Grishnak01

10/5/2005 7:03 AM

Notorious Thread Killer

Last Seen:
Today @ 1:43 PM

Posts: 1,056
Visits: 1,167

From what I've seen and heard (and somewhat experienced), owning and using a gun breeds gun violence. I've never owned a gun, and I stay out of areas where they're use is more prevalent. I'm 36 years old and have never had a gun pointed at me. I've never pointed a gun at anyone. If you own a gun, odds are better that someone's going to come in and try and steal it from you and shoot you with it. Again.. this is just my opinion. Oh.. and thanks for the SouthPark reference. It's ALWAYS a good idea
-- To the victor go the spoils I used to be indecisive... Now I'm not so sure. Just doing what I can... for the people. Religion smacks reason in the face and storms out, smugly convinced that it is master of a six-thousand-year-old world...that might, indeed, still be flat as well. ~ Leo

Scipio Africanus

10/5/2005 8:10 AM

Grognard fantôme

Last Seen:
Today @ 8:02 PM

Posts: 7,355
Visits: 9,706

From what I've seen and heard (and somewhat experienced), owning and using a gun breeds gun violence. I've never owned a gun, and I stay out of areas where they're use is more prevalent. Just curious. How is it that you KNOW where to stay "out of?" You might be surprised which households have guns in them in North America. I'm 36 years old and have never had a gun pointed at me. I've never pointed a gun at anyone. Why does owning a gun necessarily equate in your mind with it being pointed at anyone? I'm 38. I own a pistol, I've shot pistols, shotguns and rifles, and I also have NEVER pointed a gun at anyone, nor has anyone pointed one at me. There are many potentially lethal machines, and activities which we use everyday. Automobiles kill far more people than guns. Motorcycles, frankly, should be outlawed for recreational and personal travel use: they're statistically equivalent to suicide machines. Jelly donuts are the biggest killers of all, along with tobacco and beer. You really wanna reduce suffering, focus on these implements of mayhem. Most gun owners are responsible, safe, and know that pointing one at anyone means, you'd better be defending your life or that of a loved one, and willing to shoot to kill, otherwise, there is no point in owning it at all, and also no point in feeling the guilt or grief when/if an intruder harms you or your loved ones in a way that might have been preventable had you been suitably armed. There are a highly visible minority of gun users/owners who give private ownership a bad name, i.e., criminals. As Jerm points out, taking the guns out of the hands of responsible citizens will do virtually NOTHING to take the guns out of the hands of criminals. Moreover, affording a system in which private citizens CAN acquire and own guns has a minimal effect on the number in the hands of criminals. If you own a gun, odds are better that someone's going to come in and try and steal it from you and shoot you with it. Show me the stats. I don't believe it. There are a lot of speculative claims made in this area of sociology. Exactly how is it that someone is going to KNOW that there is a gun in YOUR house, so that he/she should intrude and try to steal it? Also, even if there is a correlation between breaking and entering and gun ownership, this does not demonstrate that the guns caused the criminality. It might just as well indicate that the pre-existing state of criminality for which the gun was attributed by the owner as being a necessary response did in fact exist! It is the America way to be armed, responsible citizens, ready to defend our way of life through use of militia if necessary. To deny this, or to assert that "times have changed" is delusionary.
-- "'The front' is wherever you stop running away. Get used to it. This is what modern warfare looks like." K T Cat

cleopatra143

10/5/2005 8:31 AM