I have to agree with Mongoose that it's more the arguments that are the cause for concern, rather than the actual closing of the thread.

I did not feel the informal nomination thread was unconstitutional either, and the argument that ensued was no doubt from past events outside of 1BC.

Let's try and get on with the game shall we? If you guys really cannot get along then we (the mods) may need to consider what action to take.

</mod hat>

<senator hat>

Here's what I see needs to happen to get things going

1.) Final senate election will finish tomorrow, so we can have a new senate and elect a princep (probably me, from the sound of it)

2.) Princep to hold a senate vote on Dismissal of Mr G due to absence. I think most here will agree we need a 2nd dedicated justice.

3.) New Judge to be elected, there are a couple of potential candidates who have informally stated they'll run.

4.) Hopefully new judge will help reduce the tension evident from this thread.

5.) Psweet, if you get elected to Senate, but want to stand down, at least wait until we have the princep in place so the senate can function with LC as a stand-in until a new senator can be official voted in.

Does that sound ok?!?!

Tor - I do not think the senate has been "Power hungry". In fact I feel I have been very willing to listen to suggestions. What I haven't had is any reasoning or real justification for a lot of the changes.

But that's for another thread....

</senator hat>

Now i need to get back to work...

Has demanded apologies under threat of my thread being closed.
Has closed said thread after apologies were not made.
Has been insulting not only in the nomination thread but this one as well.
Has ignored the two judge system and instilled punishment despite it requiring majority vote.
Has threatened to 'harshen' said punishment for the creation of this impeachment thread.
Has stated punishment was given because I questioned the court's powers.  Which itself is abuse of power.
Has currently refused to give reason for his actions despite direct questions from other players besides myself.
Has made false accusations that have been proven false.
Has misused the Consitution for his own agenda against the quote, "Powerhungry Senate".

Could anyone honestly say that's healthy? Also,  if this really is motivated by outside factors as claimed... what have I done to directly instigate the above?  In my mind,  that's more reason to just remove that kind of pessimistic behavior and allow other's to serve in the court.  That's idiotic, self destructive behaviour if it is and obviously I'm not alone in thinking that.  Past issues don't justify unprovoked behavior like this.

TORA's position could be filled just as easily as Mr. G's if impeached.  As said above,  there are people who have made it known they're willing to serve as judge.  Not to mention,  all of the volunteers seem to have been inspired directly because of the fact TORA exhibits abusive behavior in this position.

I wasn't saying past issues fuelled the impeachment. I'm saying that past issues have fuelled the tension between the two of you, and caused things to escalate so quickly.

I can fully appreciate that if (say) it was me who had started that nomination thread, then I don't believe Tor would have reacted the same way, since he does not have any history with me. Although it may have well ended up in a big debate about what was constitutional and what was not...

I can also appreciate that if (say) I was the DGame Justice who had said the thread was unconstititional and quoted part of the constitution, I don't think you would have taken the same tone in response. You probably would have just told me not to be silly and explained why, rather than escalate the confrontation.

I suppose what I'm saying is I'm trying to be fair here and trying to play devil's advocate to both sides of the argument. I don't believe any of this bad blood is good for anyone, and escalation to asking for impeachment has just flared a number of underlying tensions.

As potential Princep, I wish to continue to defend against any unwarranted or unjustified changes to the power(s) of the office(s), as I hope my posts have shown so far. I also have concerns that the lack of a dedicated second justice may be driving Tor to take things into his own hands for expediency, or for personal reasons (I'm sorry Tor but I think that may be the case).

Biz, you have been a great ally in the Senate, and I would hate to see all of this arguing detract from your work so far in the game. I don't believe you would have reacted in the same way if it was anyone else but Tor.

So in conclusion, rather than pointing fingers or more arguing, I suppose it boils down to what the community wants. Do we want the Senate to potentially remove both Justices and re-hold elections for the 2 spots? Or do we want to just remove Mr G and give Tor a chance to work co-operatively with a new justice.

Tor - I would like to give you one more chance, in the name of fairness, but you will have to start co-operating a bit more with us and actualy giving direct answers to questions, or my concerns could grow to a level where I'll be agreeing with the rest of these guys.

Finally, I feel this is completely distracting us from the actual process of playing the game and discussing strategy, so I would suggest that we make a decision on this as soon as we have an elected Princep.

And please, let's keep this civil (or we'll have to move this to P+R... )

Sure it's true that the other things I find annoying and troubling but not worthy of impeachment.  That said, just because he can be impeached doesn't mean he should be impeached.  That however is not my call so I'll stay out of it.  Personally I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if he will admit that he didn't realize that part of the constitution and at least reopens the thread.  Still, Biz, I think this is a losing battle and one you should probably drop.  If the princep doesn't wish to bring this to a vote, all that energy has gone to waste.  Let's just make sure we get a judge in there that can act as a ballancing factor against him and call it good (doesn't have to be me).  While it may not have been past events which gave justification for past actions on both accounts, I do believe that they had an effect of fueling the flames and is probably the reason neither of you want to back down. 

Isn't that exactly what I did do, CD?  The escalation began when I was met with demands to apologize and insulted under threat of the thread being locked.  All that,  despite the fact I had attempted to explain, in a civil tone, how he was being 'silly' in not one,  but two posts (as did psweet as well). It all boils down to what Jerm mentioned,  he went rouge and closed the thread (as punishment) which required the whole body of the court to be in agreement.

However, the real reason why I'm stubborn to remove this call...

The exact reaon why this thread still stands, is not that I have some personal grudge.  It's the fact that despite not one person agreeing with his actions... he's chosen to ignore questions from his fellow players peratining to the act,  blame others for his actions,  and continue to blatantly abuse his power by not reopening the thread in question.  It's been revealed to him that his actions are unconsitutional by his fellow players and he simply doesn't care and refuses to accept it.

That's why this impeachment thread is still here and had there been any indication that he actually cared that the entire player base involved in this thread was against what he did...  this would've been withdrawn as of yesterday.

It's the principal of that fact that leaves me stubborn to remove this call for impeachment.  I mean,  we tell him we don't like what he's done and he assumes some martyr role claiming he's protecting the consitution and we're all 'heedlesly stepping upon it'. That 'we've shown how we don't want to better this place,' and other attempts such as insulting the community for not being able to see the light that he apparently can only see.  Oh no, not that we didn't like what he did,  it's the power hungry Senate not wanting to share power. What?

Those above mentioned observations from this thread are why I'm stubborn to remove this call for impeachment.  I honeslty feel it's in no way healthy, for us to have a judge who simply doesn't care what his fellow players think.

In the end, this is a game.  But damn if that behavior isn't considered annoying despite that.

Almost, but I don't think you would have said the following to other members of the board:

I appreciate this is only a small comment, but there was no indication that you were joking about the "learn to read" comment.

In the same token, there is no indication whether Tor was joking or not in his early posts either.

I think Rabi said long ago that we need to be careful with what we write, as it can easily be taken the wrong way, given that plaintext does not show the tone of the comment.

I would like Tor to post in this thread and calmly respond to Jerms points/questions, all of which are valid points of discussion. I have yet to hear any valid justification on Tor's part, so I will PM him to ensure he is aware of this request.

This game is meant to be fun, not a struggle, which is what I feel it has been the last few days.

All I want to do is get on with the game, as I'm sure most of you do too...

Once the Princep is done then he can decide weather to pursue this impeachment "farce" or to get down to business as is his constitutional right to call.

Although i must point out that with one Supreme Court Judge who by a "Simple Majority" can nullify any decision by the senate any such impeachment will be doomed to failure.

So let us leave this nonsense behind us seeing as it only hinders the celtic people's cause and god given right to world domination. Or the Defence of freedom, whatever they call it these days.